“This club strives for young players to come through the ranks. It’s within the United ethos” – Darren Fletcher. Never could a sentence be truer – United are simply the greatest club at producing young players for the first team. This weekend, United’s U18 side are at Anfield to face Liverpool in the quarter finals of the FA Youth Cup, we’ll compare the history of the two Academies and take a look at the current sides and how they’ve gotten this far.
Why write a piece ahead of this game in particular?
Man United are the FA Youth Cup’s record winners with nine triumphs – five of those came in the first five years of the competition (starting in 1953). Liverpool only won the trophy for the first time in 1996 and have gone on to win it twice since. The competition is considered to be prestigious with over 400 teams entering. It was originally set-up to help stimulate football post-War amongst the younger generations. Today, the final gets TV and media coverage emphasising just how important this competition is considered for the future of young footballers.
When Manchester United’s youth pedigree is mentioned, automatically people think back to the class of ’92. Truth be told, it was the following year that Scholes and Phil Neville played in the FA Youth Cup final, joining Gary Neville, Giggs, Beckham and Butt who’d played the year before but unsurprisingly ’93 is forgotten as United lost the final to Leeds. Few people outside of United truly appreciate just how successful United’s Academy has been at producing footballers for the first team. By contrast, to quote both The Liverpool Echo and Christopher Davies from the Daily Mail, Liverpool have a “famous youth system”. Fame aside, just how do the two Academies compare?
Academies head-to-head:
Comparing Liverpool’s Academy success in terms of actually producing players for the club with United’s is quite staggering:
Liverpool have brought through 69 players from the Youth team
Manchester United have brought through 161 players from the Youth team
Liverpool have had 19 of those 69 reach 100 league appearances or more
Manchester United have had 38 of those 161 players reach 100 league appearances or more
Liverpool youth players have amassed 6,519 First Team league games
Manchester United players have amassed 12,505 First Team league games
Liverpool have won five European Cups with 7 Youth players featuring in the successful finals
Manchester United have won three European Cups with 17 Youth players featuring in the successful finals
NB definition of a Youth player is someone who played youth football at an under 18 level; the criteria for going on to be included as a first team player involves not playing first team football for any other club. For example, Lee Sharpe is excluded as he played first team football for Torquay before joining United
Whilst the figures show that all-round United’s Academy has been far more successful, one has to recognise that United’s is a freak Academy. The success the club have had in terms of production is no fluke but is unmatched by anyone. Liverpool, like United can boast of players playing at the top level in English football who didn’t quite make it at the club – Stephen Warnock and Danny Guthrie being two good examples.
United’s success, is as I said no fluke. Taking inspiration from Sir Matt Bubsy, Jimmy Murphy and Joe Armstrong, United have always tried to replicate the achievements of The Busby Babes – home produced players. The Sir Alex Ferguson era has been particularly fruitful but this success has been down to having passionate people overseeing the Academy – Brian Kidd, Eric Harrison, Nobby Stiles and more recently Brian McClair.
Of the two sides, Liverpool have had the most recent success, winning the competition in 2006 and then beating United to it in 2007 on penalties. United’s last victory came back in 2003. The sides have met on ten occasions in this tournament with United victorious six times:
30th October 1954 – United won 4-1 at Anfield (Colman, Brennan 2, Adams)
8th October 1960 – United won 3-0 at Old Trafford (Chisnall, Ackerley 2)
17th January 1966 – United lost 0-3
25th January 1982 – United drew 0-0 at Old Trafford
1st February 1982 – United won 1-0 at Anfield (Pearson)
9th February 1991 – United won 3-1 at Old Trafford (Gordon pen, Giggs, McKee)
5th March 1996 – United lost 2-3 at Anfield (Brebner, Twiss)
7th January 1997 – United won 2-1 at Anfield (D. Brown, Notman pen)
14th April 2007 – United won 2-1 at Anfield (OG and Hewson pen)
26th April 2007 – United lost 0-1 at Old Trafford and 3-4 on pens in Final
The eleventh meeting between the two sides in this competition may yet be the most memorable. Rarely in recent years has a United Academy team been so talked about (increased awareness via Twitter, blogs and the club website) or had so much coverage on MUTV. Likewise, this Liverpool side will seek to once again win the trophy but also the players will try to progress on into the first team, something that personnel from previous sides failed to do during the Benitez era. Ahead of the game we’ll tell you how each side has got this far and pick out a couple of players worth watching.
Liverpool U18s in the FA Youth Cup 2010/11:
Premier League side’s Academies enter the competition at the third round stage and have to win three matches before reaching the quarter finals:
3rd Round: Notts County 0-4 Liverpool (Adorjan, Ngoo 2, Sterling)
4th Round: Liverpool 3-1 Crystal Palace (Gauti Emilsson 2, Coady) – after extra time
5th Round: Liverpool 9-0 Southend (Sterling 5, Coady, Sama, Morgan, Silva)
Since defeating Southend, Liverpool have played four games and scored 15 goals; however they’ve not kept a clean sheet. They are currently on a 12 match unbeaten and most recently beat Blackburn 5-1. Their last defeat was back in October against West Brom.
Raheem Sterling, the 16 year old flying winger has been talked already in the press following his brace against Southend. He was signed last summer from Q.P.R and already then was being dubbed a future star. His impact has been so impressive that he was recently involved in the first team squad for a Europa League match. His lightning pace will no doubt keep United’s fullbacks busy.
Conor Coady is an England Youth international who can play at centre back or in the midfield. He captained the Liverpool U18 side last year and now is a member of the Reserve team but still plays some of the U18 games. He’s known for being very calm in possession and a good organiser of his team-mates. Like Sterling, Coady has been with the first-team and he now trains with them too at Melwood (the rest of the U18s train at Kirkby).
Suso or Jesus Fernandez Saez is a 17 year old Spanish player signed in the summer from Cadiz CF. He plays as a striker who likes to drop deep. His dribbling and close control have earned him a lot of praise and he’s been involved with the first team on a number of occasions now. He signed a professional contract with the club six months ago and despite rarely playing at U18 any more he’s likely to feature against United.
Finally, Michael Ngoo may trigger something inside Red heads – he was on trial at the club 18 months ago but ended up joining Liverpool from Southend. Due to his height, comparisons have been made with Peter Crouch. Jason Banton is a left winger or a striker who has recently joined from Blackburn. He’s given United problems in the past and is considered to be a highly talented and very fast player.
Man United U18s in the FA Youth Cup 2010/11:
United’s progress so far hasn’t been quite as impressive as Liverpool’s but the scorelines tell only half the story:
3rd Round: Man United 3-2 Portsmouth (Pogba, OG, W.Keane)
United made hard-work of what was quite a one sided match. Paul Pogba’s stunning long range shot opened the scoring before the Portsmouth goalkeeper punched Larnell Cole’s corner into his own net. William Keane made it three with a superb finish after good work by Tunnicliffe and would have had a hat-trick had two further goals not been incorrectly ruled out. Despite poor conditions, United passed the ball about superbly but were stunned and punished for thinking the game was over as Pompey scored two late goals inside the last five minutes.
4th Round: West Ham 0-1 Man United (W.Keane)
In truth, the game at West Ham was a poor one. Neither side were truly able to control the game as West Ham’s tough tackling matched up well against United. The only goal came in the first half and stemmed from some great skill and a goal keeping error. Larnell Cole juggled the ball before hitting a volley at goal; Cowler, in goal spilled the ball and William Keane’s striking instincts saw him react first to smash the ball into the net. United held out at the end and West Ham were unlucky not to have a penalty following a Fornasier handball.
5th Round: Man United 1-0 Newcastle United (Morrison)
The victory over Newcastle was the most comfortable of the lot. It was amazing that the scoreline ended 1-0 as United had 35 efforts on goal. The midfield trio of Tunnicliffe, Pogba and Morrison were simply unplayable. It was a moment of magic from Morrison that won the game. Morrison dummied two players inside the box before making space on his weaker side and smashing the ball in off the underside of the bar. It was an entertaining performance but United will be concerned they couldn’t make the scoreline more emphatic.
The win over Newcastle came off the back of three straight league defeats for the side. However since then there have been impressive wins, 6-1 over Man City and 3-0 away at Blackburn. Most recently they drew 2-2 to Stoke. All three performances though were excellent and have seen two players in particular receive a lot of praise.
Larnell Cole is a young midfielder at United who’s played in 18 of the 23 Academy games this season. Having played 20 times last year, Cole, a central midfielder looked like he might struggle for games due to the trio of Tunnicliffe, Pogba and Morrison all being ahead of him. This year however, with the Academy lacking wingers, he’s been able to make the right wing position his own. Cole has always been quick but short and had struggled against bigger players but work in the gym looks to be paying off and despite still being little he is now quite stocky and looks much more confident.
Cole’s technically superb. He’s quite different from some of the midfielders that have come through the ranks at the club in that respect. He loves time on the ball and seems to have an incredible ability to make it stick to his feet. His low centre of gravity gives him superb balance and a quick shimmy of his body sends an opponent the wrong way. He recently played in his favoured central position against Man City and ended up scoring a stunning hat-trick. After that game against City, Jim Ryan who works at the Academy said of Cole (and Lingard):
“It’s a nice story… both of these boys came through the system of the club but they’ve always been very small, especially Jessie, very thin… and on some Sunday mornings they’ve had to take hammerings from other teams, maybe City, where their physical size has overpowered them but they’ve persevered and persevered and the Youth Academy has persevered with them until they play on Saturday morning and they become almost unplayable, the two of them, against the same boys, probably, that were knocking them about 3 or 4 years ago… it’s great for the boys, absolutely a credit to them, but it’s also nice for all the Academy coaches who persevered and persevered with boys who might have been released by other clubs.”
Cole hasn’t featured for the Reserves this season but made two appearances last year. The second as a sub in the final game of the season when he came off the bench to score a stunning winning goal away at Burnley. His style has at times been compared to the current great Barcelona players, Iniesta and Xavi. Whilst that does seem rather far-fetched he is certainly in that mould of passing and moving and keeping the ball whilst his vision is excellent. He should start at Anfield, certainly his recent form deserves it.
Michele Fornasier is still just 17 but already has become a commanding and destructive (in a good sense) centre back. He has formed a strong partnership with Tom Thorpe this season which has been compared to the Vidic/Ferdinand partnership in the first team. Fornasier joined in the summer of 2009 from Fiorentina. He had captained their youth sides right up to the U16 level. His transfer made headliness as United were accused of poaching the youngster. He was on trial at the club as part of the squad was entered into the annual Milk Cup tournament and then signed a formal contract. United were never charged as the transfer was deemed to be legal.
In his first season, Fornasier played 18 times for the Academy and made one reserve appearance as a substitute. This season he has made more appearances than anyone else at U18 level, playing 19 times and has made one further substitute appearance for the Reserve team. Like Vidic, Fornasier seems to be brave and courageous – he challenges and generally wins every header whilst he’s tough tackling if the ball is on the ground. He’s not fast but his positional play has definitely improved and seems to have compensated for any battles he may have lost based on speed.
Importantly his partnership with Thorpe has provided a real back-bone to the side. Both players are able to play the ball well and don’t look uncomfortable with it at their feet. There are concerns over the fitness of the pair though. Fornasier was hauled off at half time against Stoke whilst Thorpe injured his back against Blackburn at the end of February and hasn’t featured since.
Should United’s first choice centre back pairing miss out then it will be a huge blow as the centre forward pairing of William Keane and John Cofie has been broken too. Cofie is recovery from knee surgery and this game will be too soon for him whilst Keane suffered a dead leg against well over a month ago now and is yet to return although he may do for this fixture.
Besides the players mentioned already, this site has profiled the exciting midfield trio of Paul Pogba, Ravel Morrison and Ryan Tunnicliffe this season too.
In conclusion…
The game should be excellent, there is no doubting that this United side is as strong as any in recent history. The winners will take on Chelsea, the current holders of the cup in a two legged semi-final. It pits two of the best Academies at present in the country against each other for the first of three meetings that will take place before mid-April. History is on United’s side but luck with injuries isn’t at the moment. Certainly Liverpool’s once famous Academy will try and claim the bragging rights of the North, however in my own opinion, they have a long way to go before they can come close to toppling the impressive record that United have of producing first team players.
NB Tickets are available on the gate for this game. Fans will be segregated and United I believe will have the usual away section that’s given to the club for first team games. Kick off is at midday.
A few pictures from the ‘archives’:
FA Youth Cup winners in 1992
Manchester United U18 side in 1992
FA Youth Cup winners in 1995
FA Youth Cup winners in 2003
Our thanks to TriciaRKG for the pictures
“United are simply the greatest club at producing young players”
this is a very very questionable statement.
in the current utd squad only fletcher, giggs and scholes are home grown and stand out. add nevilles, beckham and butt to that, and its hard to think of any other top players utd have bought through in recent times (wes brown and john o shea and to a lesser extent jonny evans are debatable absentees from this group).
i take arsenal as an example (admittedly a biased choice), and the arsenal team currently boasts szczesny, clichy, djourou, gibbs, cesc, wilshere, bendtner. then consider the players arsenal have brought through, then sold on: ashley cole, bentley, pennant, sidwell, muamba, larsson, upson etc etc. then to align the comparison with utd since the 90s, include merson, keown, adams, and going back a little further, andy cole and even david o leary.
in so much as liverpool are concerned, in the current liverpool squad the obvious ones are gerrard and carragher. but in the time since utd last brought through a top player, liverpool have had fowler, owen, and mcmannaman, and more recently (albeit less notably) warnock and kelly.
although the success of the utd team at the end of the 1990s was founded on youth, it’s crass to suggest that utd have been the most successful english club at bringing through youth players to the first team since then. i would argue that since the treble team, not a single utd academy graduate could be deemed to be a top class player (although fletcher has at times merited that description in recent years).
so, while utd have in the past brought through a greater volume of players than liverpool (and perhaps arsenal too), and although the utd youth system boasts graduates such as edwards and best who are probably unparalleled, the quality of the players they have brought through in the past 15 years pales in comparison.
chelsea have terry, spurs have king, city have hart, and richards. darren fletcher is the only utd player who has graduated from the youth team in that time and can rightfully be considered a starting 11 player. are utd really simply the best at producing youth players?!?
Jez –
You have to forget what you’ve seen under Wenger… I’m not talking about the present day when I made that statement. In post-war football history, and you simply cannot argue with the facts/stats, NO club has produced more players than Man United.
You’re only thinking from the 90s onwards here. I’ve not claimed that since the induction of the Premier League United have been the best. Post-war however they have been. Football did exist before the Premier League was founded you know!?
For the record, in the past 15 years… Fletcher, O’Shea, Gibson, Evans, Brown, to an extetnt Welbeck/Cleverley. Then you have to look at others who have come through to play in the Premier League but not for United so to name a few… Richardson, Bardsley, Spector, Simpson, McShane, Dave Jones, Ebanks-Blake, Cathcart, Shawcross, Pugh, Higginbotham, Campbell to name a few. Granted not all of them have made it at United, but they’re all PL players and came through the United Academy in the past 15 years. Pretty impressive.
I can appreciate as an Arsenal fan you’re all Wenger-ite but football did exist pre-PL and post-war quite simply NO team has brought through more players into their first team.
@nameonthetrophy.
So, you said United does have a lot of players coming through post-war but not giving a proof on it?
When the article said ‘the battle between two successful academy’ ; does it have any meaning at all? If they’re not the current best academy, this match isn’t as great as, say, the past Villa versus Chelsea. At the times, Villa, Arsenal, and Chelsea are also among the best, I think.
This is no condemn though, merely showing your weak argument.
@xxx
The figures for how many players United have brought through are there…
There is no argument in the piece so I’m not sure what you’re suggesting is weak. Taking Liverpool and Man United alone, which I’ve done in this piece as I’m not talking about other academies; they’ve both been successful. The reality is, Liverpool’s academy has this “fame” tag associated with it and probably has been no more successful than other academies.
However United do have the MOST successful academy of the lot.
This is wrong:
“Since defeating Southend, Liverpool have played four games and scored 14 goals; however they’ve not kept a clean sheet. An 8 match unbeaten run came to an end against Crewe but they responded well beating Blackburn 5-1 in their most recent game.”
Liverpool actually beat Crewe 2-1 (and 4-2 earlier in the season), so they have scored 15 goals after the 9-0 win, not 14, and their unbeaten run is 12 games and counting, 9 if you only count league games. Their last defeat was against WBA in October. They are currently 4th in the league (Group C) behind Everton, City and Bolton and ahead of United, but will go top on goal difference if they win their two games in hand.
So recent results would indicate that Liverpool are clear favorites.
Banton may be on his way to Southend on loan if their manager finally makes up his mind, so he may or may not be out of the game. He’s only been with LFC for a short while and has hardly played at all, so Silva or their top scorer Adam Morgan should probably get a mention ahead of him. The other players singled out ore good choices. A little unsure about Ngoo, but he’s been at both clubs so I guess he can get a special mention in this context.
They also have Andre Wisdom back/available after a few months out through injury.
Also, Suso may have officially signed last summer according to the official site, but he was bought in the summer of 2009 and arrived in Liverpool in January 2010.
http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spain/2009/06/22/1340422/exclusive-liverpool-have-signed-a-jewel-in-suso-cadiz-youth
Thanks for the info – the results were taken from Liverpool’s own site so any incorrect information is also on there.
I only mentioned Banton as he’s someone who regular viewers of United’s Academy will remember – he generally played well against us when at Blackburn.
Personally I find it hard to call who the favourites are as results at Academy level are so varied (we drew with Stoke 2-2 last weekend having battered them for 90mins; we lost at Crewe 5-1 I think recently again having battered them). United are waiting on injury news – if Thorpe, Fornasier and William Keane don’t make it, particularly the first two then Liverpool will have the edge.
Both sides have some really top prospects so it should be an entertaining match. The CM area will be particularly interesting – the three of Tunnicliffe, Pogba and Morrison are exceptional talents and tend to dominate.
Once again, thanks for pointing out any corrections.
No problem, and you’re right about the inconsistency at that level. The start of the season was very poor for LFC compared to the recent run.
The official site is right, but it may be a bit confusing in not listing LFC scores first.