The Red Report: Fergie and the FA, Scholes, Chants and POTY

Welcome to the twelth issue of The Red Report, the round table discussion of all things Manchester United by your favourite United blogs: The Busby WayStretford-EndBangalore To Old TraffordManUtd24, United Youth, Red Flag Flying High and Red Force Rising.

After a brief absence we’re back and with a new contributor! Fergie, Scholes, our fans and the player of the year are all on the agenda…

Sir Alex has been criticised lately and charged by the FA for his comments about referee Martin Atkinson. How do you think Fergie handles the media and should he be able to speak his mind?

Chudi | The Busby Way: I’m in two minds with this as it can be detrimental at times but at other times it can be beneficial. People kicked up a fuss about the blackout but had SAF came out and said what he felt following the Liverpool game we could be looking at more than a 5 game touchline ban with all the decisions Dowd missed.

In regards to being allowed to say what you feel, you should be able to but within reason. At our club, in football and in the world in general nobody is above being criticised but it appears the second you express displeasure at some of the referee’s decisions your liable to be hung drawn and quartered!

Herzog’s Child | Stretford-End: Ideally, managers and players would be allowed to tell the truth when discussing topics after matches. There is, however, a simple problem: harsh criticism of referees, whether merited or not, can undermine them – which puts them in a fairly precarious position for the next match they officiate in. Extensive criticism is a dangerous exercise; it ensures the next referee’s performance will be subjected to intense scrutiny, and, as a result, conspiracy theorists will be provided with ample ammo should something go wrong. Silence from their side is a detriment, and would, if reversed, lead to less public criticism of them, I reckon. I’m fully supportive of referees coming out after games and discussing their actions. Honesty is always the first casualty in all conflict. The advent of it would clean up the game. Managers, players, refs, chairmen, the F.A. – there’s a huge lack of honesty, and the game suffers greatly as a result.

Personally, didn’t see a whole lot wrong with Fergie’s sentiments after Chelsea. Atkinson got several key decisions terribly wrong. Again. Most criticism subjected to referees is merited, you’ll find – but if we’re honest, I think most will agree that Fergie should have known better. He’s in the game long enough now to know what’s allowed and what isn’t. It doesn’t help either that there’s strong hypocrisy in his grievances. He attempted to shrug off Rooney’s elbow as mere slight contact, but then, a few days later, he recoiled in indignation after Luiz was not sent off. He can’t have it both ways, even if his intentions are right. It grates a little when he espouses about the lack of leeway for truth within the game, when he, of all people, is one of the most consistent blatant bluffers.

Should he be allowed to tell the truth? In a sense, yes. But there’s a way of doing it. Disappointment can be emphasised without personal criticism. Creating a siege mentality is fine – but applying severe pressure to refs in particular could have the reverse effect: they may not, as a result, look upon us favourably in future games. Look, the rule is there – and it’s not too difficult to live by it, even if it’s a bloody silly one. I’m personally not a huge fan of the after-match interview, anyway – so soon after a game, a manager can be frustrated, angry, and can say things in the heat of the moment. Sadly, this is not recognised by the powers which enforce the ruling, so you’re left with comments being said that they will be forced to take action against. Later interview should suffice.

Justin| Red Flag Flying High: I think he’s got the right idea in creating a siege mentality at United with the press. The whole “us against them” idea has always seemed to have been around during Fergie’s reign and I don’t see the harm in it. No matter what United do, the FA and the press don’t offer any real support. Take the world cup bid years ago when United dropped out of the FA Cup to play in that meaningless tournament in Brazil, because the FA thought it would help England’s hosting chances.

No one gave us any credit and the press vilified us so I think Fergie should carry on treating the press with the same way he always has, speaking his mind. Touchline bans and fines are overblown and have little or no real effect on what happens on the pitch anyway.

Siddarth | Bangalore to Old Trafford: Sir Alex’s method of handling the press is rather brutal than required, but after the kind of refereeing that was seen in our match against Chelsea, it deserved a reaction like that! I do agree what Sir Alex said goes against the respect campaign, and he has been properly punished, maybe a bit harshly. But I think Martin Atkinson should also be taken to task for one of the worst refereeing performances I have ever seen! The media meanwhile is its usual self, hypocritical vultures, just waiting for a chance to denounce the club! Just can’t do anything about it, we have to live with it!

TG | ManUtd24: The way he handles the press isn’t one for other managers to aspire to, to be brutally honest. Does he have to say what he thinks if he knows the consequences? He can express his opinion, but he must know his limits. I don’t think his recent comments on referee’s and Martin Atkinson were ideal – and I personally think that his five match suspension was, ultimately, the correct decision. Sorry! As for the FA and the media, you can’t blame them. The FA acted correctly and the media, as annoying as they may seem, are like predators waiting to seize on every opportunity. That’s just how it goes, unfortunately.

Nick | United Youth: On the one hand, some of the grudges and the black-outs and silences and somewhat fatuous complaints about officials (Wiley for example, an obvious case of conjuring something to complain about to deflect from a poor performance) are a little embarrassing and unbecoming. On the other, I sort of admire his refusal to kowtow to the press in certain aspects. Post-match interviews in particular are a joke concept – thrusting a microphone under a manager’s nose in the heat of the moment and often almost explicitly trying to get them to talk themselves into trouble is ridiculous. While he went too far in questioning Atkinson’s fairness, I can’t blame him for being extremely angry in the wake of what was obviously an utterly inept refereeing display.

Should he say what he thinks? If he wants to stay out of trouble, obviously not. I’d like to see him answer all post-match interview questions with bland answers and ‘no comment’, just to expose them as the terrible idea they are. There have been complaints from the media that by not speaking, he’s depriving the fans somehow – personally I’m not that bothered whether he speaks to us immediately after games and think the media are being somewhat insincere and far more concerned about having to do more actual work with the lack of juicy quotes or ready-made ‘SAF lashes out’ stories.

Potentially the problem here lies in the post-match interview. Maybe the manager’s should only do it having been able to see highlights of the game?

Our second topic is Paul Scholes. He’s still an incredible player but for the sake of the team’s progression, should he retire at the end of this season?

Justin| Red Flag Flying High: Scholes should retire for two reasons. Firstly he’s coming to the end of a glittering career and I’d like to see him finish it at the top rather than fading gradually. Secondly it’s time for some of the players who’ve been dazzling us in the academy and reserves to finally get a chance and show what they’re made of.

I’d love to see the likes of Cleverley Pogba and Morrison being given a chance next season and if Scholes retiring increases their first team chances, I think it may be a difficult but worthwhile step forward.

Nick | United Youth: Scholesy’s still an absolute genius, but he’s also still the only midfielder we really have of his type, which is an unacceptable situation when you consider his age. I don’t think him retiring would be best, but us having someone to ease the creative burden on him would be ideal – whether by bringing someone in or fast-tracking a Morrison or Petrucci for example. Scholesy can still play an important role next season in a more infrequent capacity, although whether he’d be happy with that may dictate whether he does stay on for the extra year.

TG | ManUtd24: I’d like him to stay another year. He showed against Marseille that he is still hungry and willing, displaying another midfield masterclass. No hyperbole. He’s been a revelation in his deep position; and seems to show a great understanding with Michael Carrick and the rest of his teammates. He might not cover as much large distances as he used to, but he still has found success in spite of that. And long may it continue.

Siddarth | Bangalore to Old Trafford: As long as Scholesy is there, we know we can depend on him to control games, and out pass the opposition. But we really feel the pinch when he’s missing!! We have no one else who can step and provide that kind of creativity right now. Possibly Anderson, but he’s been injured too much off late! I think we should keep Scholesy for another year and hopefully Sir Alex also signs someone who can at least offer some creativity in midfield.

Herzog’s Child | Stretford-End: Tough one, this, and highly dependent on what movements come about in the summer. Ideally, Paul would stay on another year – his experience is of huge benefit to the team, of course, and as shown on many occasions this season the class is still there. That won’t change. However, there is huge evidence of reliance – huge reliance – on both him and Giggs this season, which tells two tales. Firstly, that they’re both miracles of a kind never to be seen again. Secondly, and most crucially to United now, it’s a reflection of how below par we are across the middle 4. Gibson is not good enough. Anderson has done little to suggest he’s ever going to be a top class player. Owen Hargreaves isn’t likely to return for very long. Carrick and Fletcher have slumped this season.

I’d keep him on, but only if the midfield is reinforced with quality. Two central midfielders are imperative, it can be argued. If they arrive, sure – keep Paul, and hopefully – for us – his chances will be limited. If not, it will again highlight not only his eternal greatness, but also a persisting problem – our midfield. If keeping him on will result in not addressing the midfield area, it will be hugely problematic. Increasingly, he’s unable to withstand an intense 90 minutes. We cannot keep on relying on him – it wouldn’t be good for him, for a start, and – most importantly – it would be a huge, and unlikely to pay off, risk for us.

So, in conclusion: Staying on will be great, if he’s surrounded by a plethora of quality. If not, and he’s made an integral part again, it would be detrimental.

Chudi | The Busby Way: Paul Scholes is a quality player even at this stage in his career. Marseille was an example of how good he still is but you have to wonder how long he can keep it up. The fact he isn’t picked every game is said to be the reason behind his reluctance to sign a new deal but you have to ask if he is capable?

Personally I would want him around as long as possible, there is the factor that if he leaves we may be forced into buying a replacement but I’m more than happy with what we have!

Real mixed bunch of responses. In short I don’t think anyone would complain if he stayed on but certainly his retirement this summer wouldn’t be the worst thing.

Following the FA Youth Cup tie on Sunday at Liverpool, United’s fans came under immense criticism for sick chants aimed at Liverpool. What can football do to try and put an end to these chants?

Justin| Red Flag Flying High: For starters it’s a lot easier to see people making Munich gestures than it is to see what people are chanting so any of the people seen at Old Trafford, doing the airplane signs should be ejected and banned for life.

I’m a hundred per cent convinced that if it wasn’t for antagonism by opposing fans the sick chants by some of our own would stop almost immediately.

If stewards or police hear people chanting things that are out of order then it’s up to them to try and act.

Nick | United Youth: It’s a shame, but there are still a number of fans, even otherwise relatively sane ones, who think the Munich/Hillsborough tit-for-tat (and similar such chants) is an acceptable part of an intense rivalry and that the rivalry would be worse off without them. Bollocks, frankly. There’s so much more to the United-Liverpool rivalry in particular than that, it just isn’t needed, and that’s before getting into how pathetic you have to be to consider the death of players or fans as an acceptable stick with which to beat others with.

How do you cut them out? Million dollar question I guess. Peer pressure and self-policing strike me as the most effective method, but that clearly isn’t working currently. It’s just so hard when you’ve got an idiotic minority like those at Anfield last weekend who clearly go along with the intention of singing such nonsense rather than supporting their team. You can only hope things like cctv/effective stewarding(!) and so on can weed those people out, but then you risk that overstepping the mark, infringing on supporters’ liberties and so on.

The media have a part to play as well – both in reinforcing how unacceptable this behaviour is, but also in not overblowing certain occasions and increasingly fanning the flames with inflammatory, inaccurate reporting.

TG | ManUtd24: What can we do? It’s not the perfect option but it’s the only logical one and that’s to fine and even, in the most extreme, deduct points or order to play a game behind closed doors. Sometimes, this action might be taken for abuse that is racially motivated. Now, there’s no point in saying what is worse whatever your opinion, racism or mocking the dead, but neither are things that are tolerated in society. So the Premier League and the Football Association have to act and charge the team – that way the fans will be cautious and only the idiotic would dare to jeopardise their club’s position like that.

Siddarth | Bangalore to Old Trafford: It was disgraceful behaviour from those fans really, that too in a youth cup tie! Guess the FA will have to get strict about such things and also clubs should start banning people who do this from attending games! There’s a limit between friendly banter between fans and just insulting/ degrading the opposition, even if they are Liverpool. That line shouldn’t be crossed; even if the opposition does it to us, why should we stoop to their level?!

Herzog’s Child | Stretford-End: Quite simply, I don’t think they can. Personally don’t think it’s as wide a problem as the media have attempted to suggest this week. Of course you get your idiots – the ones who think it’s witty, or big, to go that step too far and attempt to rile even more. Sad thing is, most who sing it are doing it for one reason only – to wind up. Deep down, I don’t think people are really sneering at the death of others. It’s mere winding-up, albeit loaded with inexcusable fuckwittery

It’s the sorry side of the game; the side the majority, thankfully, do not take part in. As it’s simply the ejecting of words – of crass sentiment, admitelledley – it’s almost impossible to stop. People should know better. And, to be fair, on occasions I’ve heard the odd shout of ’96 etc.’ shouted down and condemned by reds who understand the idiocy of it. Again, a lot of it is just crowd mentality – fuelled by a buzz to make those you’re chanting at desperately irate. It has no place, but sadly it’s something that crept in and stuck. Only the advent of a semblance of decency among all would stop it, but what are the chances of that?

Chudi | The Busby Way: There have been a number of instances where we have been highlighted as the ‘bad guy’, first Arsenal and the Wenger chants and now Liverpool but to be honest we aren’t the only club that has fans that indulge in these chants and secondly it is a silly minority.

There is nothing funny or smart about mocking the death of innocent people but unfortunately as obvious as this is there are fans who can’t grasp this and never will. We can condemn them as much as we like but it is likely they will continue.

Time for the authorities to get tougher?

As per usual we decided to look at a non-United topic. This week we discuss the players outside of United who have impressed us most this season:

Chudi | The Busby Way: Enrique and Tiote have done good work for Newcastle and Seamus Coleman definitely deserves a shout. Then you have the obvious names like Van Der Vaart and to a lesser extent Nasri.

Herzog’s Child | Stretford-End: Bale, in stages, has impressed me greatly. An old-fashioned winger. Gets it, runs with it and whips it in. There’s no stop and starting, no endless fannying about, and, for the most part, he just does the basics but terribly well. The collective drooling – particularly following the Inter Milan slaying – was a unmerited and predictably cringe-worthy. But he’s good player, real good, and would be even better in a top side. Grates a tad that we missed out on him.

Wilshere is always a pleasure to watch, unlike his childish tweeting. Distinctly un-English in style, he’s quick-footed, clever, and constantly tries to make things happen. A rarefied talent, who, like Bale, will keep on getting better. England – and Arsenal *sighs* – have a real gem there. Nasri is another who does those things well – a creator, and a continuous threat in all games. Those two, in particular, have really stood out for Arsenal this season. Unfortunately . . .

Others…..Adam has done well. Great passer, leads the team well. Could do with shifting a few pounds, mind. Van der Vaart, and, dare I say it, Meireles, have both particularly looked like *gulps* ‘value.’ Carlos, the shit, keeps on producing. Silva is another who’s really impressed. Scott Parker has wielded a bit of magic, I guess, and will unfortunately just about dig West Ham out of the relegation misery-pit. Think that’s about it, really – which is a sad story, considering the great swathe of past regulars who have, for some reason, failed to cut it this year: Drogba, Torres, Lampard, Gerrard, and a number of others.

Siddarth | Bangalore to Old Trafford: In England, I think Bale has been sensational this season, while even Charlie Adam had a great start to the season, waned off a bit now, but still never expected him to have such an impact! Carlton Cole and Scott Parker have been excellent this season, probably the only reason West Ham are still in with a chance of escaping relegation! Abroad, the usual names pop-up, Messi, Ronaldo, Ozil, Iniesta, etc. Alexis Sanchez is another one having a fantastic season with Udinese, while Manuel Neuer continues to amaze me in goal!

TG | ManUtd24: This is the part where I could make a witty remark such as Chelsea’s Martin Atkinson but, as you’d gather, I don’t think like that. You could for one of the Spurs players, Gareth Bale or Rafael van der Vaart but my choice has to be one of the City players. Boo me all you want!! I’ve been really impressed with Vincent Kompany and Joe Hart and the latter has solved England’s goalkeeping crisis and finally, finally, they’ve seemed to find a proper number one. Then there’s Jack Wilshere. The player of this generation. You don’t need my word for it – we already know how god he is and how good he’ll be in a couple of years to come. All the purring is justified.

Nick | United Youth: Domestically, let’s have a go at a Team of the Year, minus United representation (VDS, Vidic, Nani would all be certs, Rafael, Evra and Berba decent shouts) – Cech; Carr, Kompany, Dawson, Baines; Nasri, Wilshere, Parker, Bale; van der Vaart; Tevez. Particularly impressed by Baines and Nasri, Bale and VDV very strong in Europe. Tevez and Parker have led their teams so well, albeit in differing circumstances. Honourable mentions for David Silva, Charlie Adam, Nolan and Barton at Newcastle and *spit* John Terry. Have also been impressed by Albrighton at Villa and Coleman at Everton as far as young players go, Kelly at Liverpool too.

Justin| Red Flag Flying High: Hate to say it but Vincent Kompany’s looked decent for City, if it wasn’t for him they’d be nowhere near the top four. Wilshere’s a shoo-in for the young PFA award and rightly so as he’s class and one player I’d love to see at Old Trafford. Other than that they’re all rubbish!

No one going for Torres then?!


Best of the blogs:

The Busby Way | The Only Bad News To Have Come From This Weekend
Stretford-End | Manchester United Debt and Ownership Explained
Bangalore To Old Trafford | Will We Really Miss Rio?
Red Flag Flying High | The Misguided Scapegoating of Michael Carrick
ManUtd24 | (Analysis) Michael Carrick v Marseille: Effective From The Deep
United Youth | Ravel Morrison – The Next ‘Saviour of English Football’?


That concludes another Red Report. Hopefully this edition keeps you entertained until next time. We’re always open to hear from you so you can catch us on Twitter:

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But don’t forget to check out our individual sites if you think we have missed something, as it is likely at least one of us will have covered it there:

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1 Comment on The Red Report: Fergie and the FA, Scholes, Chants and POTY

  1. What leads to criticism of Ferguson’s attitude to, ahem, “the truth” is that he’s so wildly hypocritical about it. Most managers and players tip-toe from one side of the support/lambast the referee line to the other. Ferguson tramples all over it, saying referees need to be left well alone when they make a bad decision that suits us and calling them gutless at best and dishonest at worst when one goes the other way.

    And fans cause as many problems. 90% of fans who say we need technology still don’t let up in their criticism of referees despite their adherence to the belief that it’d make their job simpler. You can’t on the one hand say “Referees have a tough job, FIFA should be making it easier for them” and then after the next game crucify a ref or lino because he didn’t spot in a split second what we had thirteen different angles of slow-motion to come to a firm decision upon.

    And then there’s the FA, every so often demoting a ref or punishing them in some other way to let off a bit of the pressure and spouting about how accountable they are, but the rest of the time making them untouchable.

    While we obviously also have the players, who do their share of “the referees have a tough time of it” chirrupping whilst actively making a referee’s life more difficult and unpleasant with every perceived injustice.

    Basically there is crass hypocrisy at every level of the game when it comes to referees, but most people seem to think it’s only everybody else who’s causing the trouble.

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