AUTHORS: – Stretford-End & Doron
Other than lining up in the playground and getting picked last behind Yuran, the Russian exchange student who prefers wrestling with his brothers, there is nothing more humiliating than coming on as a substitute and then being taken off later in the game. Yes, we all know someone (naming no names) who has been victim of such an embarrassment, however this actually happened to our £7million Portuguese forward Bebe, when he came darting off the bench to replace Owen Hargreaves against Wolves, only to find himself walking back towards the dugout a mere 64 minutes later. Ok, United were drawing and you could argue it was a tactical shift but the fact remains that one of Manchester United’s most unusual buys hasn’t yet hit the ground running.
Following the dire performance against non-league Crawley Town the weekend, I ask you, are Bebe and Obertan limiting the playing time of other players in games like this?
Gabriel Obertan
Gabriel Obertan clearly is unsettled at United, and obviously needs to understand how the transfer window works rather than putting in a request the day after it shuts. His performances have been erratic at best despite showing some nimble footwork and change of pace to beat defenders.
Last season, his assist away in Wolfsburg showed exactly why Sir Alex chose to part with £3million for the youngster. Skill, balance and tricky were all on show just before Michael Owen scored his third goal of the night. The Frenchman is yet to score in the Premier League this season, although has notched up a goal in the Champions League – away in Turkey. With the revelations that he handed in a transfer request, should Sir Alex Ferguson be playing him ahead of some promising youngsters?
It’s easy to forget where Obertan has come from though. Aged 17 he was one of the hottest prospects in European football. A pacey forward who had been capped at every youth level in the French national team. He racked up 50 first team appearances for Bordeaux when he was just 18. His problems started in the 2008/09 season when he complained of a back injury. Doctors found no problem and his dip in form slumped. His decline was completed with a disappointing loan to Lorient. Upon signing for United, the club doctors discovered his back problem and revealed he’d been playing with the issue for as long as 18 months – it was incredible that French doctors had missed it. His decline in the 18 months before his move to United coincided with the back injury and since then he’s never looked the same cocky confident player he was aged 17/18.
Sir Alex Ferguson has played Obertan as a wide player and just off the front man in a 4-4-1-1 formation. Obertan looks more at home in wide areas and sometimes looks a little lost when playing in the classic ‘number 10’ role. His main attributes are his dribbling and trickery, which is why I believe that if we are to see the best of Obertan it will surely be from a wide left or wide right area. I’m not convinced that his vision and anticipation are up to scratch to operate as a the link between midfield and attack, but that is just my view – what do you think?
Bebe
Bebe’s transfer was one of the most usual stories of all time. The young Portuguese was recommended to Sir Alex Ferguson by former assistant Carlos Queiroz, played in the homeless World Cup and cost a whopping £7.4million considering he signed for nothing for Vitória de Guimarães five weeks earlier. From what we’ve seen so far, Bebe has a long way to go before he can be considered a first team forward or winger. Of course we need to give him more time to settle in, find his feet and show why United parted with a similar fee to what Tottenham Hotspur paid for established International Rafael Van der Vaart.
It’s important to have some perspective when it comes to Bebe. He’s only 20 and arguably his meteoric rise from amateur football in Portugal to Manchester United can only be matched by Chris Smalling’s fairytale. Bebe only became a professional footballer aged 19, in the summer of 2009, approximately 18 months ago. This is a player who is still very much learning the game, particularly the tactical side and trying to understand the position he plays.
When Bebe was signed by United, he was immediately put on an intense fitness course so that he could reach a level whereby he could take part in training with the first team. It often gets forgotten that he had no pre-season and importantly, doesn’t speak the language yet. He needs 12-18 months at United, learning the game and the language. Only then will he have been given a fair crack at starting to forge a career at the club. It may well be that he shows no signs of progressing but at the moment, he’s been a United player for 6 months and taken part in just two league games.
Regular watcher view
We are lucky enough to have such great contributors to the website, and we’ve teamed up with Tony and Nick – who are regulars at United youth and reserves games – to get their thoughts on Bebe/Obertan and what the future holds for the pair:
Tony
Firstly, in terms of first team I have my doubts. When I look at players I look for three things dependent on their role.
1. Technical Capability (heading, shooting, tackling, passing etc)
2. Emotional Capability (dealing with pressure, handling the big stage, decision making, resilience, controlling a game)
3. Physical Capability (strength on the ball, stamina, mental strength)
Obertan: Technically I think he is very good with great pace and the ability to beat a man. Emotionally I think OT is too big for him. On Saturday he got dispossessed twice and then didn’t want the ball. I was confused whether or not we were playing 451 or 433 because he was so deep! His decision making is poor (when to pass and who to) but that might come with time. I have real question marks over whether he can be a ‘Manchester United Player’…..it takes a certain something. Birtles and Forlan amongst others couldn’t handle the pressure but were great players at other clubs. Physically he looked knackered after 30 minutes. I don’t know if that is because of lack of match practice or what.
Bebe: This boy is so raw. It is so obvious that he has not had a footballing education. I would put him in the reserves for 12 months and let him learn the game. Technically there are parts which are good but others which are really poor. His crossing was ok on Saturday as an example but his link up play very poor. It is very hard to assess his total Capability.
Holding back others: Both of these players are wide men so although Morrison and King can play out wide they are not wide men by nature. Morrison is a midfielder and King a forward. So I would be looking at Bebe/Obertan in this way. For me, Gibson and Anderson are holding the Youth players back.
Gibson has played 50+ first team games. Technically he is a good player although I don’t think he can tackle as he is scared of getting hurt. But Emotionally he is weak and Physically he can’t impose himself.
Anderson – 135 games and four goals with very few assists! What does he actually bring? Technically he is ok but can’t score! Emotionally is ok but rarely controls a game. When he does everyone raves about it! How many times has he controlled a game in his 135 appearances? Physically he is strong…but has no stamina and goes missing late in games.
I believe that Gibson and Anderson should be looking over their shoulder but Bebe and Obertan will be the scapegoats. Obertan is homesick and wants out so watch this space some summer.
Nick
Obertan: Gabby’s clearly got talent – quick, skilful and creative when on his game. He has odd games for the reserves where he looks a class act (his recent hattrick against Bury for example, or a vital win against Liverpool at the tail end of last season which all but clinched the reserve title), and we’ve seen the odd glimpse of that at first team level (Wolfsburg last season springs to mind). Trouble is – at all levels – he makes Nani in his first couple of seasons look like a model of consistency. Someone of his ability shouldn’t be as anonymous as he often is with the second string, or as entirely unconvincing as he was against a Conference full-back on Saturday.
You’re always going to get inconsistency from young wide players, not least when they don’t get regular games, but I’m not convinced Gabby has what it takes to gradually iron that out like Nani pretty much has (and Ronaldo did before him). I think the big issue for Gabby is the mental side of the game – he seems to really lack self-belief and the conviction that he has what it takes to make it at OT.
He tends to hide or keep things uber-simple when things aren’t going his way, whereas the likes of Ronaldo and Nani would keep demanding the ball and trying things. I was quite excited by Gabby’s signing – low risk, potential of high reward – but I fear it’s not going to pan out and he might ends up as one of those players who has to drop down to a lesser stage before he shines.
Bébé: Bébé’s not the talent Obertan is right now, and he’s had some absolute shockers for both first and second string so far, games where you wonder if there’s a footballer in there at all. There have been a few moments of real quality though (his first goal vs Wigan for the reserves was outstanding), enough to make me willing to wait a bit before judging him. This transfer must have been a total whirlwind for him – from Portuguese third tier to one of the biggest clubs in the world (via another club) in the space of a few weeks, coupled with moving country, not speaking the language, big transfer fee, major lifestyle change and so on.
It’s going to take any player a fair while to adapt and adjust, and it’s not like he’s had any sort of run of games at any level to really get into a rhythm and build some confidence. He was clearly bought as a really rough diamond with lots of raw potential, and you can see that in him – there’s pace, strength, a direct approach and occasional moments of inspiration. If he’d been snapped up on the cheap, he’d probably be getting a lot more leeway than he is. My gut feeling would be that he’s starting from too low a level to progress far enough, quickly enough to become a first-teamer at United, but I am quite intrigued to see how he fares over the next year or so, which he should be given before really being judged conclusively.
For more excellent insight on Manchester United’s youth and Reserve teams visit Nick’s Manchester United’s youth blog.
Who else is there?
This is important. We aren’t claiming that Bebe and Obertan will have good careers at United but in terms of young wide players at the club, there aren’t many alternatives at the moment. Cameron Stewart was sold to Hull and Nick Ajose (who is primarily a striker) is on loan at Bury and now injured. There is Robbie Brady, a determined left winger who has been given a squad number this season – arguably he deserves as much of a chance as Bebe and Obertan as he impresses regularly at reserve level. That’s the extent of wingers at reserve level at the club though.
It’s very normal to see Joshua King (a striker), Ravel Morrison (a central midfielder), Fabio (a left back) or Marnick Vermijl (a versatile fullback) play on the wings as there is no one else pushing for a place. Even down at U18 level there’s only really one recognised winger in the squad – Gyliano Van Velzen. The return of Tom Cleverley may see Obertan and Bebe fall further back in the pecking order – Cleverley, a central midfielder is versatile and able to play wide if required.
At many levels of the club, investment is needed in wide players but right now Bebe and Obertan both play an important role in attempting to push (arguably not very well) the first team wingers and at the same time, providing width in the Reserves is allowing other players to play in their correct positions as they too attempt to learn the game. It’s fair to say that bar Robbie Brady, Bebe and Obertan aren’t really holding anyone else back in terms of getting bits of first team action.
Conclusion
The title of piece may appear misleading. From the off, the aim of this post wasn’t to criticise Bebe and Obertan. I feel it is fair to ask the question, not based upon Saturday’s performance, but are they ready for the first team yet. In Obertan’s case, he has a season more under his belt than Bebe, but is clearly unsettled (hence the his transfer request at the end of January) and a loan move back to France may have benefited the player, rather than having a stop start season in the Premier League (Obertan has played in four fixture over the past three months).
With Bebe, it is far too early to judge a player that has come from nothing to such as big stage in such a short space of time. The price tag may seem a little steep considering how little first team action Bebe has seen in Portugal, however the player doesn’t dictate how much he is worth, he can only prove his worth on the pitch. In the games he has played Bebe appears to be strong and pacey, however he has been flung into an arena that has swallowed up talented players before, because they couldn’t rise to the occasion.
Sir Matt Busby once said the three most important characteristics of being a Manchester United player are “Skill, Flair and Character…and the most important one of those is character” – hopefully both Bebe and Obertan can prove doubters wrong and show their worth on the big stage, however it may not be for some time yet.
I’d rather Cleverley and Morrison were given a chance ahead of Bebe. I can handle Obertan as he does have a bit of pace and trickery but needs to work on the final ball (think Nani 2 years ago). Cleverley is at the age where he needs to be getting a look in for us next season, if not he’s out.
bebe is not a football player!!!!
He just another lucky player who played with star….
bebe wasnt signed 4 7 mil …it MAY rise 2 7 mil depending on conditions ….NOW FUCK OFF YE UNITED HATING DICKHEAD WANKERS….i hope ye get total scrotum implosion!!!!
I think Obertan Looks the business technically when in full flow he glides past opposition players, but as in the article he looks mentally fragile. Bebe on the other hand looks like raw talent and the question is whether he can catch up on his football education he has missed before the boat passes. I don’t feel they are holding anyone back as most of the other players like Cleverly, Morrison etc are not out and out wide men. That in tandem with the fact we have Nani, Valencia, Park and Giggs next season we can afford to give them more time.
@shane – just to confirm Bebe was signed for £7.4 with some of the money going directly to an agent and the rest was paid upfront – you can check the clubs online accounts here http://www.mufplc.com/ – if you wish to query the fee
Interesting article and plenty of good points made all around. Couple of issues (1) The amount paid to Vitoria for Bebe is debatable (2) Obertan was pretty quick to dismiss reports of him asking for a transfer. Both points are relatively important but don’t take away from the fundamental questions: Are they holding players back? Are they good enough?
I guess the first was answered quite emphatically, though I’d like to pick-up on a point that was touched on. With Evra signing a new contract at OT, Fabio’s chances to break into the first team have been diminished significantly. The likelihood of him shifting Pat from LB in the next three years is minimal; maybe it’s time to give him the opportunity to play further up the field.
The kid has bags of talent, a great attitude (like his brother), a temperament & mentality that seems perfectly suited to OT, skill, speed, strength and defensive nous. Unlike Fergie, I’ve not seen the lad train every week, but judging him on his adventurous runs forward and his willingness to shoot, I reckon the lad deserves a chance ahead of both Obertan and Bebe. I know he was a holding midfielder and subsequently a left back but he seems to have attacking attributes – you only need look at Park to see how a player with limited attacking ability but other attributes can thrive. I know I’d be more confident with Fabio playing ahead of Evra in Marseille than Obe or Bebe.
On the second question, are these lads good enough? I think it’s too early to say. In my book Obertan is a lot closer than Bebe and shows glimpses of talent. His lack of end-product is very similar to Nani over his first couple of years and I think he may eventually prove doubters wrong. I think the lad should have been sent on loan for the season, allowing him a proper run and opportunity to prosper.
Bebe, for me, is another matter altogether. I’ve not seen anything that would instill me with much confidence. I’ll admit it’s very early days for the lad, but in-saying that, why is Fergie including him in first-team squads when it’s patently obvious he’s way off the mark? IMO the lad needed a year behind the scenes at OT followed by a loan move. Throwing him in at the deep-end only increases the pressure on him from fans, media & himself.
I’d be very worried by Bebe’s inability to play with his head up; a massive difference between amateur players and pros is the ability to keep your head raised and understand what’s going-on around you. Watching Sunday league football you’ll see a player with this ability standing head and shoulders above the rest. It’s not something that’s easily taught and Bebe currently hasn’t got it. I think the lad should be given time to bed-in and develop and then given a decent chance. I don’t think he should be in any of our first-team squads this year, but loaned out in the summer and returned in summer 2012.
Here’s hoping they both continue with their development and ultimately make the grade, they both seem to be decent lads.
fuck u nameonthetrophy nyegguh hater!!!! i was talkin bout a differet currency mang…. i dont see any proof on dat site dat dey payed that much for him ….+ y arent all dese bebe hatin fagits excited about what he cud do instead of slating him the whole time!!!!!!!!!!!
@shane where has he been slated? The blog concludes: “it is far too early to judge a player that has come from nothing to such as big stage in such a short space of time” – far from being a hater
no i totally agree with the blog , im talking a bout all these blogs sayin hes shit and all the fans saying the same in the comments …. i ght excited wen i see if hes on the bench or starting whereas theres people who will bitch about him da hole way tru d match!!!
@shane ah ok, just seemed like you were having a go at this blog. We always try to back our own players – I’d rather our own players succeed or are given a fair chance to do so before they leave (if that’s the case). With Bebe, it’s normal for a player to get criticism after a bad performance.
2 b honest i was jus lookin 4 a arguement cause im bored in work haha…i think bebes problem is that hes too eager on the ball…he needs to relax and paly things simple.
this situation is shocking. now giggs doesnt go to marseille and instead of him on the wing will be playing fletcher. iam not even try to talk about obertanand bebe coz like for a fan its painfull to look at them playing especially at scared obertan fucking lazy bollocks
The way I see it, they’ve not had enough game time and when they’ve played for the Reserves they’ve had easy games and a few times they’ve played as Strikers, positions they both seem likely to play in, in the future. I suggest a loan for Obertan to build up confidence and gain experience, Bebe won’t go out on loan (not next season anyway) as he needs to be kept close to the club to improve and work closely with the excellent coaches and great facilities at Carrington. Both need more gametime.
Were Obertan and Bebe the only 2 to not perform on Saturday? No.
I’m not sure if either will make it as regulars but they need to be given time, they’re long term projects, they weren’t bought to come in straight away and they certainly weren’t bought to replace Ronaldo, at £3m and £7m they were worth the risk, whether the risk pays off, we’ll see. Same goes for the other fringe players.
if choose between obertan and bebe, bebe no doubt. obertan does no good for us with his scared grimace what r he scared of that idiot he should lucky not scared its a disgrace to have such a softie in our squad. hope he’s gone soon. now bebe, he’s got something, but he’s very unexperienced, then you think about his story its no surprise at all+ his story is very appealing – poor kid came to stardom, its real not like some lmpards and all that rich shit.they r disgusting