Through the glory of weblinks I discovered apparent “revealed proof” that Fernando Torres is better than Wayne Rooney. Indeed, the writer excitedly states it’s “irrefutable”.
Jeebus, I thought, has the writer of this blog discovered something that is tangible and definitive enough to finally dispel the purpose of opinion?? And if he has, what is he doing wasting it on a comparison about football players??
The blog clearly indicates that Torres is “quite clearly” the more “consistently effective” player. Jaimie (the writer) bolds up (twice) that the primary function of a striker is to score and create goals. Bravo my friend.
I won’t get bogged down in details, suffice to say, using the impressive list of stats provided, Torres has had more shots and scored more goals. It’s a ratio that isn’t included so I’ll put it here, on average Torres scores a goal every 2.7 shots and Rooney every 3.6. Torres has nowhere near as many assists (10 to Rooney’s 26) but Jaimie essentially claims that the goals tally nullifies this and clearly shows Torres is more creative. By the single goal. It’s definitive. Using the stats provided. Again, bravo.
But wait, what’s this? The claimed goal tally of 41 for Rooney since the 2007/08 season began is not correct? He has actually scored 44? But doesn’t this.. I mean.. by your own method doesn’t it prove Rooney is clearly.. Oh.
Admittedly that is including the World Club Cup. Which is seen as “non competitive” because you didn’t enter it, I presume. Fair enough. You win.
Oh, wait.. no sorry. You didn’t think I was going to stop there did you? Statistics are all well and good but at the end of the day I could use them to IRREFUTABLY prove that Macheda’s strike rate of a goal for every 50 minutes he was on the pitch in the league last season makes him by far the most prolific in the land, let alone Torres’ paltry rate of one every 117 minutes.. (!)
Statistics are just numbers that sound good until you throw in some external and contributory factors to help out. And granted, if you are creative with the stats, they look better.
Anyway, to help you out on some other things that have happened despite a bunch of stats being recorded and wrongly represented.
In 2007/2008 Manchester United lost 5 league games. Rooney was absent for 4 of those, and in the 5th, he scored to level for United at Stamford Bridge despite carrying an injury. After the goal, Rooney was subbed, and we went onto lose. Aside from this one which could be dismissed on a technicality, Rooney did not feature in a losing team for United in the League or European Cup this season. In December 2008 Rooney went on to score the goal to win United the World Club Cup.
In 2008/09 much of Rooney’s performances were from the wide left position. That he managed to score 20 goals from that position was quite a feat. These things can’t really be represented in statistics and sadly Jaimie didn’t feel it was appropriate to mention. It’s a shame considering the revelation was supposed to be definitive, but let’s continue.
So far this season Torres has 8 goals in 9 games. 2 of those goals came against Burnley and 3 against Hull at Anfield, hardly teams who travel well. Two against a West Ham side bereft of confidence. Removing those goals gives a strike rate of 1 in 6. That goal was a consolation in the defeat by Villa.
So far this season Rooney has scored the winning goal in United’s first two wins (masterminding the Wigan game), dragged United back into it against Arsenal, got us off the mark in the Manchester derby and scored a stunner against Spurs – oh yeah, those last 3 teams faced United with impressive 100% records, not exactly the cannon fodder Torres has enjoyed.
And, this time last week, using Jaimie’s argument, Rooney was undeniably better than Torres before the Spaniard scored a hat-trick against Hull.
Rooney may usually be deployed as a “number 9” this season but it’s still not likely he will be a goal hanger in the same form as Torres. He likes to be more involved in the play you see.
Conclusion?
I’m not going to sit here and devalue the merits of Torres. As an out and out striker he is simply exceptional and I would love him in the team alongside our number 10 but in terms of what they bring to the team, well if you believe in plain statistics, then even using the argument of my learned friend (once the stats are true, of course) then you will see Rooney brings more to the team. Using the evidence of my eyes, I would far rather have Rooney in my team anyway.
Is this irrefutable? As far as it can be, I suppose, but alas I cannot claim to have stumbled on the secret that renders the human opinion redundant.
The blog can be dismissed as yet another Liverpool fan trying to claim they either have a) the best two players in the world (really?) b) the best team in the league (really?) c) “world class players” to United’s equivalent. Because when the battle is lost, and the goose is well and truly cooked, you can still trust a Scouser to try to flog the dead horse with nonsensical rants to try and claim (dis)illusion is really fact. Like “second is the new first”. Whatever that means.
Essentially the debate becomes similar to the Cantona v Le Tissier debate of 1994 through 1995. Le Tiss scored more goals than Eric and some pretty spectacular ones, too. I suppose it boils down to whether you are happy to claim the moral high ground in obscurity and meaningless black and white figures (accurate ones mind) rather than in hard solid, trophy proof.
But anyway, if you were still in any doubt, while Fernando has been either collection more trophies for being a fabulous gay Austrian fashionista than in his football team or trying to ensure his isn’t the latest dirty red to have his house robbed, here’s a little postcard of what our Wayne’s been upto.
You might have to squint because it seems he doesn’t like the limelight.
Source: (Yolkie)
Rooney will crap all over that pathetic little girl!
Rooney is the complete forward – FACT!
El-ni-girl wont win any trophies at the dippers, he should have gone to a bigger club! lmfao
He would not even make our bench!
What a fool the wirter of the liverpool perspective really is.
For instance the end about torres scoring more gpg and gpm then rooney even when he spent a lot of the season injured. And surely a higher average is easier the less games you play. Like Machedas example
Reposted from Liverpool KOP,
I do not understand the reasoning behind the inclusion of statistics of 2009-10 season. If you had included those stats after the season has been over, it would’ve made sense. But including them when only 7 games have so far been played.
Torres had scored a hat-trick last weekend against HULL and thus turning this comparison in his favour. However, If rooney scores a hat-trick this weekend whilst torres goes goalless, Does it mean Rooney has become a more effective player within a single week ??
I have writted the facts for past two COMPLETED seasons.
Fernando Torres
2007-08
goals – 33 / assists – 4
Total – 37
2008-2009
goals – 17 / assists – 5
Total – 22
Wayne Rooney
2007-08
goals – 18 / assists – 14
Total – 32
2008-2009
goals – 17/ assists – 12
Total – 29
Torres totals = 59 (50:9)
Rooney Totals = 61 (35:26)
Thus, By your own computed statistics, ROONEY is IRREFUTABLY far more effective player than Fernando torres.
Im not even Going on and on about rooney being played in kuyt’s position for last two seasons as well as being far more complete and effective player on the pitch than on the final third like my fellow mancs. Im just stating the fact you had posted.
P.S.
Rooney -2 premiership medals, 1 carling cup, 1 club world cup, 1 champions league
Torres – NIL
And that’s a fact
I typed a wordy reply. I won’t type it all here, you can visit his blog for that, but the crux was –
– He had chosen the stats that made Torres look favourable. He stated his blog was a definitive answer to the player whose presence gave greater creativity to the team, but he had only put goals / shots on goal / assists and he hadn’t included goalscoring chances created, although curiously he did include “number of fouls against the player” and I QUOTE “Despite being fouled more than twice as much than Rooney, Torres still scored more goals”. I questioned how this proved anything AT ALL, he declined to answer but curiously said he already had answered?
– He said in the “analysis” that “Rooney has a higher assist ration BUT Torres still comes out on top when it comes to overall creative impact : (Torres : 68 goals scored/created – Rooney: 67 goals scored/created)
When I challenged him with the fact that this time last week that would have read Torres 3 goals inferior he said “it doesn’t make any difference”. Despite the fact he was using it as analysis. As “definitive” proof that Rooney is better.
There’s other things and he has just faffed them away with all the air of a moron. Which is not meant as offence. I read the declarations on his blog and I thought it was the number one Liverpool fan blog so I was treating him with respect and intelligence and then it quickly transpired that he doesn’t actually know what he’s on about. At all.
This sort of debate is silly. But its football, so silly is welcome…:)
Here is my contention:
Given the amount of daring chances that gets created in a typical united bad-day, play Torres upfront and,
I hazard, he could become even a bigger goal scorer
than Ronaldo.
why?
He is good in the air.
pin-point precise with shots + hits in front of goal.
::
He is not known to shoot free-kicks.
Because of the obvious deficiencies of the liverpool side.
Rooney: I peronally think still has a long way to go
per goal-chance vs:goals-scored ratio. Everything else, about him ranks along with Torres.
Dont dare say he is better than Torres yet.
nuff.
Just to add,
Each time I watch him score some of his truly delicious goals, I wish within me,
if there was a way to make him come play,
where dreams happen….I dream on 🙂
Dear dapxin,
where do you think torres has being playing ever since he has joined Liverpool????
He is the most upfront playa any1 can think of…
Speaking of Ronaldo he has Neva played upfront except the semi final an final of the champions league last year and neither has Rooney been totally upfront… Why???
Because they love football.. They like to be involved in the game as much as possible that’s the main reason they r the best in the world and if u consider torres an gerrard bettr than both of them then hw come Liverpool hav nt won the league since so many years??? Frgt league the last tyme u won anything was 2005 champ.. League ( which was well deservd though) an speaking of torres. U can onli see him upfront an near the box.. He can’t defend he can’t take free kicks he can’t keep and he can’t give crosses an u cal such a playa the worlds best??? Stats cannot be based on onli goals scored or assists if it’s like that then nistlerooy was the best playa ever… It’s hw much he can change a game by himself for the team to sacrifice…u think torres has ever sacrificed?? No he will onli stand near the box and within sme 5-10 attempts score… I find gerrard wayyy bettr than him frgt rooney
Dapxin – Sorry to challenge you mate – but you said “he could become even a bigger goal scorer than Ronaldo.”
Isn’t he paid to be a bigger goal scorer than him anyway? I shied away from this point in the other thread because there’s no way he could fight that battle but it seems a bit convenient that he would wait until Ronaldo had left to start making the comparison.
Rooney will crap all over that pathetic little girl!
Rooney is the complete forward – FACT!
El-ni-girl wont win any trophies at the dippers, he should have gone to a bigger club! lmfao
He would not even make our bench!
he wouldn’t make the bench but he made……………. sure the fucking ball went in the back of your fucking net 4 points behind and 28 games left. hope you beat the cockny scum to help us get even more into it.